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aes005 (January 7, 2009 at 1:37 pm)

I always find myself trying to answer ridiculous arguments against behavior analysis. Its seems the operant here is to get the other person to admit there wrong.

loverofbeats (December 30, 2008 at 11:28 pm)

read his book Walden II

hatchls1 (December 30, 2008 at 9:22 pm)

That is the most ignorant thing I have read in a long time. Please make an effort to understand something before you speak. Ahhh people and their divinity. Let me guess you believe in free will and choice ?

pilkingtonphil (January 1, 2009 at 9:09 am)

Things are hardly as simple as free will vs. determinism, however to try and debunk any sort of choice is pure Lutheran metaphysics.

Unfortunately there is no way to tell whether free will or determinism are "true" because any system that claims that either are sovereign presuppose them a priori. For me its more a question of ethics than anything else and what I'm saying here is to beware of an ethics that masks itself as a science. Which ethical system? See: Weber "The Protestant Ethic".

pilkingtonphil (January 1, 2009 at 9:14 am)

But haven't you sort of gone off the point I was trying to make? First off don't call people "ignorant" after reading two paragraphs of what they say... its silly. Secondly, I'm not refering to free will here at all. I'm refering to the, shall we say, paedogogic dangers raised by any discourse which grounds itself in behavioral "science". The discourse these "sciences" promote, which can be found throughout the hunmanities, seem to exacerbate social dysfunction by attempting to sort of roll....

hatchls1 (January 7, 2009 at 6:56 am)

I am not calling you ignorant but your statement. I need no more than the content of what I read for my opinion of it. It was very off and I do understand your point. However, you statement was very rash and sarcastic. And yes I can post a valid argument if you would like that free will in fact does not exist. Your very existence is contingent.You are an extension of your environment.Period. What are you referring to "beware of"? What of Skinner are you referring to ?What ethical consideration?

pilkingtonphil (January 7, 2009 at 8:23 am)

What I'm saying is that:
(a) A philosophy (and hence, a psychology) can ONLY ground itself as purely deterministic (or "free") a priori (i.e. self-assertively.... it cannot be proved).
(b) It follows from this that such assertions can only be reasonably evaluated through ethical considerations (ala Luther/Erasmus and everything that followed).
(c) To assert socio-psychological determinism as SCIENCE is dangerous as it implies that the "scientist" has access to some sort of metaphysical.....

pilkingtonphil (January 7, 2009 at 8:26 am)

.....key to the secret meanings of the universe (not unlike a priest). This imbues them with an authority which in my opinion they do not deserve. This in turn can lead to massive abuses of said power without the culprits having to apologise for it. For example: Stalinist Marxists or, alternatively, the ethical detachment of the behaviorists in Abu Ghraib.
As for my sarcasm... it implied all of this and so I make absolutely no apologies...

i2v2s (December 30, 2008 at 5:15 am)

Unfortunately more people read the criticism of Skinner's Verbal Behavior then read Verbal Behavior. Like all critique's of Skinner it showed complete misunderstanding. That criticism sets science back still. Verbal Behavior is finally being recognized as the vital work it was while Chomsky's work has yielded disasterous results. Hopefully science can recover from that superstitious attack because Skinner's work is more important than Darwin's.

i2v2s (December 30, 2008 at 5:06 am)

You go girl! Your right if anyone believes things different from you they are doomed. Just because behavioral techniques improve every aspect of our behavior and have indisputable evidence to support it we don't want that. Your view promotes psychology that fosters, guilt, shame, self hatred, and human suffering in general. It is responsible for the dangerous joke that is psychotherapy. Keep up the good fight. Ignorance is bliss.